MEETING AUDIO TRANSCRIPT

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Stuyvesant Falls Bridge. So as you recall, uh we’ve been meeting with the Stuyvesant Historic Bridge Committee. Uh We've received comments that were included in your packet that was sent out. Uh In addition to that, there was a request with uh with respect to changing the proposed uh the proposed process as far as public uh participation as well. And again, that's been included in your packet. So first, as far as the public participation, the committee had made a recommendation uh that town supervisor and chairman of the committee indicated we bring to the county, which is to change the normal process that we’ve been doing as far as our bridge projects and DOT projects. They're requesting that a new process be engaged or a modification of the process be engaged where uh a consultant uh would be brought in regarding infrastructure project uh process and infrastructure projects to um obtain additional feedback from the community. Uh the committee’s indicated that the cost of that consultant could be carried by the local not-for-profit and not at the cost of the county for that particular entity. Uh they are proposing to have an official survey uh for community members to share their vision as far as the values. Once that information has been received, there will be uh charrette workshops that would then take place to invite uh folks from the community, as well as DOT and others potential stakeholders. Uh a list was provided on the back of the uh informational sheet that they had made a request on. Um once the Charrettes are done, um then it would be placed into the hands of our consultant, the county consultant, which is Clough Harbour that we've been utilizing on the project. They would um do more design work as far as design, alternative cost and time cost and timetable assessments to be provided. They would then have additional public workshops um with Clough Harbour and the community and then Clough Harbour would finalize a draft report. So that's in a bubble as far as that modification to the process. Uh that's not the normal process that's followed with respect to the DOT funded projects. Um I have not approached the DOT whether they would fund that particular project, but I or that type of a process. But I did obtain a potential supplemental agreement from the consultant Clough Harbour to cover their additional costs or their additional work excuse me, associated with this process. They've identified uh and again, the information, the breakdown as far as number of hours and so forth. They provide an estimated cost of $65,000 in addition to their current contracts they would request as far as that modification. So that's one item that’s put before the committee tonight. As far as what the committee uh wants to undertake that type of a process and make that modification rather than doing what we're currently doing, which um as was set forth in our early presentation back in August uh as far as a public presentation meeting to uh the folks within the town of Stuyvesant, as we had outlined that the goal and that our process was going to be uh have that public meeting, obtain public comment from a written comment from the public, which was provided. And we did receive quite a bit and uh that will be part of the record. We were going to then move forward with respect to submitting the design report of the preferred design which was presented at that meeting, which was the multi-girder bridge. And then what we did is we took a bit of a pause and we opened up additional comment based on the Stuyvesant historic 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Local committee

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Local committee and gaining input. So we've been meeting for a couple of months there and I indicated that I want to in the November timeframe, actually submit that design report. So again, we received in addition to this process, we've received subsequent comments from them which we could then perhaps move forward with and incorporate the design. So again, it's does the county want to undertake this process um or does it want to just continue with uh our design process that DOT uses going forward?  

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: I mean no disrespect to the community that wants to adhere to the more antiquitous nature of the bridge, but I think that solution we looked at, which was the most robust, the least expensive and had the shortest amount of construction, I think for the overall, you know, getting that project on should move ahead as is how we’ve been proceeded. Um I saw comments where, you know, people were asking for a one lane bridge. And coming from a town where we had a recently constructed one lane bridge. It's been a nightmare. Um I think as soon as you start looking at, you know, these. Uh accruement of different components of the bridge being bolted up against the new bridge. No, I think it's just slowing things down. This bridge has been rated at what right now? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: twelve tons

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: twelve tons, correct

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: So school buses can't use it, fire trucks can't use it. It is a problem to the community. We do need a more substantial bridge. You know what it is? Um that's the Ray’s been looking for input from the public on is what we want to see, you know. 

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: But yeah, that's. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Most of the interest, I think, you know, that’s coming from the folks that are here tonight is trying to preserve that bridge and maintain it as a one lane bridge in our community uh as a historic structure but uh. 

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: yeah, I I can just tell the people from my experience uh with the one lane bridge that we have, we have a number of issues with it. We ended up having to put up traffic lights on both sides. It took a project that was quite simple and it cost sevenfold as much as it was originally uh developed for and it took 6 or 7 years longer than was intended. And we still have a lot of people that are terribly dissatisfied um with it.

Community members: 

But this has always been a one lane bridge

Exactly

For 125 years

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: Right. Right. But is the traffic the same as it was 20 some odd years ago? 

Community members:

Yes

Probably less

Probably less

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: And you have agricultural traffic as well, right? 

Community member: They make do

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: I would still highly recommend a two lane bridge. I'm sorry, but it's 

Community members:

You don’t live there

Yeah

We all live right there

We have children.

Community member: There's no sidewalks. I mean, the Stottville bridge, which is similar, um that that town has sidewalks and they still have speeders coming through. Now, we don't want that. It's a historic landmark. It's an iconic bridge. It's the Stuyvesant Falls Bridge. 

Community member: And my neighbors can correct me if I'm wrong, but both of the traffic incidents that happened on that bridge, neither of which had anything to do with the structure. One was a brake failure on an automobile and one failed to make a turn. Not even attempting 

Community member: on the bridge

Community member: No, they were attempting to turn not even attempting to cross. Neither accident had anything to do with the structure of the bridge

Community member: or the one lane

Community member: And they really inebriated

Community members:

Yes 

Yeah

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well anyway, is that a motion Donal to

Chatham Town Supervisor, Donal Collins: Yeah, again, with respect to the community here um that ones the olden design and the single lane bridge, I would make a motion to proceed uh as we had intended to originally. 

Community member: I will just add that the fact that it's a one lane bridge forces people to slow down naturally without needing lights. That's how it's been working for many, many years now. So it is a huge safety concern. The rail trail is right there. There's a lot of tourists who come to use the rail trail to ride their bikes, walk. It's a safety issue for us. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: It was one of our suggestions that came out of our committee to ask the engineers to come up with some traffic calming uh plans to incorporate into the design. 

Community member: It's an ugly design. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: That can be fixed uh that we’re looking for comments on 

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: That’s why we've been requesting the comments from the public. 

Community members:

We asked for another

We want to keep that

Give us another design

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: The majority of the funding is from the DOT

Majority Member: And Clough Harbour’s estimate is grossly inflated. $65,000

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Well, again, the single lane bridge does not meet the single lane there are specific requirements that DOT has as far as single lane bridges or the replacement of a single lane. And um one of them has to do with traffic volume. We are above the threshold for traffic volume number one. That’s one example. And when you read the I didn't bring this the design manual uh pages with me, but it doesn't indicate that it should meet those criteria. It actually says it shall meet the following criteria. So we we're above that level as far as the traffic volume. And in addition to that, it indicates that there should not be any accidents within a three year period associated with the bridge of the single lane bridge. And so with all due respect for what I've heard this evening, the fact in my opinion, the fact that, yes, someone did lose their brakes on the bridge, the fact that it was a single lane bridge, that was one of the reasons for the head on. If it was a two lane bridge and someone lost their brakes, they could have continued to pass that vehicle as long as they stayed in their lane. The fact that it was a single lane bridge contributed to it. 

Kinderhook Town Supervisor, Timothy Ooms: But if we delays

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: we have a contract, we have a contract with New York State Department of Environment or to the New York State Department of Transportation that the county has entered into that indicates that the project as a whole needs to be completed, including all the closeout documents by the end of December of 2028. When you think of that, that is not a lot of time. I understand that it seems as though it's way out there, but it really isn't. I know one of the other items I'm going to speak about this evening is the MOA associated with the Section 1064F process, which this project will have to go through as well. But keep in mind, we just went through a similar process in the town of Copake for the Route 7A ah Route 7A reconstruction. And that had just that process in and of itself has taken well over a year and has put that project basically in a holding pattern for that. So we've unfortunately lost, you know, a year on that before going into detailed design. So that being said, if we were to proceed, we still have to do the 106 process, the 4F process. Absolutely. Regardless of what type of structure gets installed. Uh that being said, detailed design would not be able to take place until probably 2026. You're going to spend nine months designing, approaching the 2027 building 2027, and the engineers indicated it's approximately an 18 month process. So that brings us to 2028 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Supervisor Adams had a point but 

Canaan Town Supervisor, Brenda Adams: Tim asked my question. I was concerned I was concerned about the availability of funding. We've been waiting in line for this funding for two years, three years? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Uh almost ten years. We've been trying to get into this federal stream of money. 

Canaan Town Supervisor, Brenda Adams: Right so 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott:  Yes? 

Community member: Have we we researched the cost to repair the current bridge? 

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Yes

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: We'd have cost estimates for that. Yes. Yeah, yeah, 

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Yeah there was an entire matrix that was done um and was actually provided to the uh local town committee last month. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: And this committee last month. 

Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski: Yeah. And I also provide an electronic uh copy this month as well. But yeah, we've looked at various options as far as the uh 

Community member: What's the cost difference? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Keegan has a quick question? 

Community member: Um it's it's just a note about the Section 106 and 4F process

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Yup

Community member: this particular bridge is in a nationally registered historic district. So it will have to undergo this extensive review process and so the committee committee. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: yeah We're aware of that. 

Community member: So I I would caution this group thinking about timelines. And you had a another project that sounds like it was relatively straightforward that still took a year. That's where this project may end up getting bogged down because we from the community don't support what's been put forward. And what we're asking for is a moment to review this historic asset and present an argument. Any design solution is the presentation of an argument Ray’s presented an argument for a two-lane bridge. Our community is passionate, mobilized, and informed and we have a good argument for keeping the existing bridge and rehabilitating it [applause] And we feel. We feel that the costs in the matrix for rehabilitation is artificially inflated. What you've got in the Matrix isn't really a true apples to apples comparison. That's articulated in our notes that the committee provided. And um what we want is the county's money to be effectively spent. Sure, this process might cost a bit more from CHA, $65,000 sounds steep. I'm a landscape architect. I do this for a living. I've written those proposals as have you, Ray. That number could get talked down and that process could be streamlined. You've got people who want to work with you and want to come up with good solutions. But what we don't want to see is this process getting bogged down in 106 and 4F when there. That's all about the adverse impact on a historic resource and when you're just demolishing it and replacing it outright. That's that's the most extreme. So so we want to work with you, Ray, and with the county. But this is not a good plan. The current plan [applause]

Greenport Town Supervisor, Kathleen Eldridge:That being said, I second. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: We have a motion in the second. All in favor? 

DPW Supervisor Committee member: I

DPW Supervisor Committee member: I

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: closed. That we’ll move forward with Ray’s plan. But I want to add to the record that I want the community’s comments. 

Community member: I'm sorry what was the motion for?

Community members:

What was the motion?

What was the motion for?

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Moving forward with our plan of Submitting the draft design. Ray will formalize that into a resolution for full board um in December. But what I wanted to make sure that we included is the community comments that have been provided included into the design report as we move forward so that we can try and um use some of the community's desires and concerns in the future of a new bridge there. 

Community member: hello may i ask a question?

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: yes

Community member: um I'm just curious how many people on this board are from this community of Stuyvesant Falls? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well this is a county bridge and we're all county supervisors. 

Community member: No but I'm asking how many live in Stuyvesant Falls? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well, I certainly do, I’m supervisor 

Community members:

You don’t live in Stuyvesant Falls

You live in Stuyvesant 

Community member: No I'm asking you, in that community, that little village of all these people that feel very strongly about what they're speaking about, because they live there which you do not 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: No, okay.

Community member: Right. I think that speaks a lot. You don't walk those streets. You don't have children there. You don't have older people there. You don't live there. So how do you make a decision for people who live there that say this really is not a good idea. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: That’s what we're tasked to do. 

Community member: Can I just can I Pardon me one moment. Can I just ask a question that may come from a lack of real knowledge. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: sure. Yup

Community member: Where, where does the buck stop? If a lot of people that are affected want to preserve the bridge. And every meeting I've been to, DOT is constantly mentioned. Maybe there's someone here from DOT? I've never seen anyone here from DOT  Which seems a little odd that it's always pushed like DOT has These rules. And these are the. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well see it’s a county project and Ray can probably answer this better. But it's a county project and we have to design it to New York State DOT standards. 

Community member: Right. Doesn’t the historic thing get involved? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Yes. Yeah. And we have to do a coordinated review with all those agencies. DEC, SHPO, all of those agencies will be part of our design process, and and we're trying to incorporate the community's concerns for that.

Community member: Your concern is performative because you're just sitting there saying, We're listening to you, but we're going to just ignore you. We're giving you this a chance to speak, but we don't care. 

Community member: Right.

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well, that's not at all what I said.

Community members:

But it is

No 

You railroaded this plan through at the moment and you’re obviously not concerned that there could be lawsuits and all sorts of things bogging you down and costing the county money 

more

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: we're always concerned. 

Community member: You don't act like it. You didn’t just vote like it. 

Community member: And you waited ten years for when the Ryan Briggs report was given to the community 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Yup

Community member: that had alternatives. So ten years went by while you're seeking federal funding and the community was never involved again until last August when you present a fait accompli. So I'm sorry, but that's not the way that you have community input. You had ten years to ask the community, what do you want? In parallel to asking the federal government for money? 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well, we did have meetings 

Community member: no you didn’t

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: with the bridge committee ten years ago 

Community member: Yeah ten years ago

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: 15 or 16 

Community member: I went through all of the minutes, all of the minutes and time after time, we and other people asked the board, the town board, 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Yup

Community member: when were we going to be updated? When were we going to be advised? And we were constantly assured, oh we'll be consulted, the community will. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: And we have been

Community member: no you didn’t

Community member: And then ten years later, that's what we get. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: We have been consulting we've been 90 days of taking public comment. 

Community members:

90 days

Two weeks.

After ten years

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Okay. 

Community member: And I'm sorry. You gave us two weeks to submit public comments after you showed us the plan that you had already decided on

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: But then we delayed it for 90 days so 

Community member: Not the public submission comments. The bridge committee started. You gave us two weeks to submit comments and the bridge committee comments came afterwards. It wasn’t 90 days for everyone in the community. 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Well, we're still receiving comments right now. 

Community members:

And you're not going to

  You're going to ignore them. 

You’re going to ignore them

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: No, we're not going to ignore them. We're trying to incorporate them 

Community members: 

Well you’re pushing through this design 

Incorporated. Into what? Into a design we’ve already got?

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Into a design for the community

Community member: It’s already done

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Serves the best community. You know?

Community member: Show us that plan

Community member: Clough Harbour just lifted one of the options out of the Ryan Biggs menu. They did not earn their money in my humble opinion. 

Community member: how much money you spend on that? 

Community member: ridiculous 

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: We will take all these comments into consideration. 

Community member: no you won’t.

Stuyvesant Town Supervisor, Ron Knott: Ray you’ve got other business

[Columbia County DPW Commissioner, Ray Jurkowski moves on to other agenda items]